Comments on: The Silverlight Problem http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/ RIA Fanatic, ramblings on Flex, Flash, Silverlight, UX, .net Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:08:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Shin Lovern http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-104022 Shin Lovern Sat, 26 Jun 2010 08:30:11 +0000 http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/#comment-104022 Hay friend How are You ? I like your post and i want to stumble it for my friend but i cant see your social bookmark widget in this blog. Please help me dude Thanks Hay friend How are You ? I like your post and i want to stumble it for my friend but i cant see your social bookmark widget in this blog. Please help me dude Thanks

]]> By: casey stalnaker http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-42532 casey stalnaker Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:38:23 +0000 http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/#comment-42532 nice article Danny. Ive been saying this since MS started PR'ing SL as a "Flash Killer". http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070501-microsofts-flash-killer-steals-the-show-at-mix07.html That was very funny though. MS makes great developer tools...but I dont see them even making a dent in the designer market. Adobe will always rule that side of the house, and imho, its for the best. For designers, by designers kinda synergy there. I do think MS needs to start catering to experienced flash developers and "programming designers"...those rare few who work on both sides of the house. Instead they have seemingly been focusing on convincing the development community that they too can now make eye-popping flash-like apps. Thats just not true with these tools alone. It would be nice if they took a bit more humble approach in trying to attract that creative talent as well. Claiming to have "killed" anyones bread-and-butter (Flash) is not exactly starting off on the right foot. That said...I think most web 2.0 professionals are practical enough to realize that the project/client needs will dictate the technology used. Its not that you have to know one(flash) or the other(SL), you can use both as needed. Its also interesting that MS is again going against a tchnology that has become a web-standard for 99% of the internet (flash). Not a good track record thus far. my 2 cents. Who's got my change? 8] nice article Danny. Ive been saying this since MS started PR’ing SL as a “Flash Killer”.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070501-microsofts-flash-killer-steals-the-show-at-mix07.html

That was very funny though.

MS makes great developer tools…but I dont see them even making a dent in the designer market. Adobe will always rule that side of the house, and imho, its for the best. For designers, by designers kinda synergy there.

I do think MS needs to start catering to experienced flash developers and “programming designers”…those rare few who work on both sides of the house. Instead they have seemingly been focusing on convincing the development community that they too can now make eye-popping flash-like apps. Thats just not true with these tools alone.

It would be nice if they took a bit more humble approach in trying to attract that creative talent as well. Claiming to have “killed” anyones bread-and-butter (Flash) is not exactly starting off on the right foot.

That said…I think most web 2.0 professionals are practical enough to realize that the project/client needs will dictate the technology used. Its not that you have to know one(flash) or the other(SL), you can use both as needed.

Its also interesting that MS is again going against a tchnology that has become a web-standard for 99% of the internet (flash). Not a good track record thus far.

my 2 cents.
Who’s got my change? 8]

]]> By: Rostislav Siryk http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-32107 Rostislav Siryk Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:42:43 +0000 http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/#comment-32107 There's interesting discussion on the Ryan Stewart's blog regarding Thermo features, which is I believe pretty related to the topic:http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1123 There’s interesting discussion on the Ryan Stewart’s blog regarding Thermo features, which is I believe pretty related to the topic:http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1123

]]> By: Rostislav Siryk http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-32009 Rostislav Siryk Sat, 03 Nov 2007 13:43:40 +0000 http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/#comment-32009 Nice points, just my two cents about Expression: MS done it a bit wrong. As you might know, Expression initially was developed by another company and then bought by MSFT nearly two years ago. I saw this tool that time and it was pretty rich in possibilities: vector + raster, a lot of exclusive features. Then, they ripped off a lot of cool things from Expression and release it as Expression Designer. This one s pretty poor, I'm working wit it for the last month and noticed a lot of weak points designer will be afraid of. For example, there's NO ALIASED FONTS in Expression. Only smoothly ones. This is awful. Flash Designers struggled with the same weakness in Flash for years, reinventing the wheels until Flash Team introduced the normal bitmap fonts. Now MS proposes to use the Tool w/out the bitmap fonts. More: There's no raster drawing in Expression. But honestly, there's a lot of good points too. But MS must attract designer with something more valuable. Designers are so lazy: they often refuse using the new version of Photoshop! What Expression can make with such inertia - only give the much best tool. Or MS will make the market for SLight so will force the designers to use Expression with the help of Project Managers. But this is another point. Nice points, just my two cents about Expression: MS done it a bit wrong. As you might know, Expression initially was developed by another company and then bought by MSFT nearly two years ago. I saw this tool that time and it was pretty rich in possibilities: vector + raster, a lot of exclusive features. Then, they ripped off a lot of cool things from Expression and release it as Expression Designer. This one s pretty poor, I’m working wit it for the last month and noticed a lot of weak points designer will be afraid of. For example, there’s NO ALIASED FONTS in Expression. Only smoothly ones. This is awful. Flash Designers struggled with the same weakness in Flash for years, reinventing the wheels until Flash Team introduced the normal bitmap fonts. Now MS proposes to use the Tool w/out the bitmap fonts. More: There’s no raster drawing in Expression. But honestly, there’s a lot of good points too. But MS must attract designer with something more valuable. Designers are so lazy: they often refuse using the new version of Photoshop! What Expression can make with such inertia – only give the much best tool.

Or MS will make the market for SLight so will force the designers to use Expression with the help of Project Managers. But this is another point.

]]> By: Jon Harris http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-29960 Jon Harris Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:26:56 +0000 http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/#comment-29960 Hi Dan... the good news is that we'll have training rolling out from the end of November/early December - 'Silverlight for Designers' is the first course that is going to be run, and this will be repeated on a monthly basis. I'll keep you posted when the dates are locked. While I think about it not sure if you've seen this yet - the Farseer Physics library - this is a XNA C# library ported to Silverlight - ported may be too stonger word... less than 10 lines of code needed to be changed! http://www.bluerosegames.com/farseersilverlightdemos/ And it's on Codeplex here: http://www.codeplex.com/FarseerPhysics Looks like it's going to be a fun year ;) Jon, UXe Microsoft Hi Dan… the good news is that we’ll have training rolling out from the end of November/early December – ‘Silverlight for Designers’ is the first course that is going to be run, and this will be repeated on a monthly basis. I’ll keep you posted when the dates are locked.

While I think about it not sure if you’ve seen this yet – the Farseer Physics library – this is a XNA C# library ported to Silverlight – ported may be too stonger word… less than 10 lines of code needed to be changed!

http://www.bluerosegames.com/farseersilverlightdemos/

And it’s on Codeplex here:
http://www.codeplex.com/FarseerPhysics

Looks like it’s going to be a fun year ;)

Jon, UXe Microsoft

]]> By: Steve http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-29847 Steve Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:47:06 +0000 http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/#comment-29847 Iv been working with WPF for almost a year now and so far it seems to be my favourite platform to develop on, especially since last december with the release of 3D capabillities. I was disappointed to find that (so far) silverlight is not using these, much to my disappointment. On the blend side of things, yeah its a good tool, but as john mentioned "it creates alot of bloated code". Visual Studio is the main one to use, and blend is still in beta release, so we can expect to see improvements. To the flash war, Silverlight will only get bigger with cross platform capabilities and personally thats something i really want to see. Iv been working with WPF for almost a year now and so far it seems to be my favourite platform to develop on, especially since last december with the release of 3D capabillities. I was disappointed to find that (so far) silverlight is not using these, much to my disappointment.

On the blend side of things, yeah its a good tool, but as john mentioned “it creates alot of bloated code”. Visual Studio is the main one to use, and blend is still in beta release, so we can expect to see improvements.

To the flash war, Silverlight will only get bigger with cross platform capabilities and personally thats something i really want to see.

]]> By: John http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-29545 John Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:19:27 +0000 http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/2007/09/30/the-silverlight-problem/#comment-29545 At our work, we did a two day training on Blend and Expression Designer. I'm a designer and I did the training w/ two of our developers. We actually found out that the Adobe Fireworks to XAML plugin works better than Expression Design. 1) its a tool I'm much more comfortable with and 2) Expression Design XAML output is 1 way only (like FW-XAML) and doesn't handle bitmaps (which Fireworks does). On the Blend side, our WPF programmers don't like Blend for the most part because it creates bloated code. So our workflow has been that I comp it in Fireworks, export it in XAML, and they build it in Visual Studio. Due to performance on our client machines, we're not pushing a lot of animation so the animation that we do use is easy enough to do w/o Blend. But I completely agree w/ you though -- MS will never make a significant impact on Flash until the tools are made for Mac. At our work, we did a two day training on Blend and Expression Designer. I’m a designer and I did the training w/ two of our developers. We actually found out that the Adobe Fireworks to XAML plugin works better than Expression Design. 1) its a tool I’m much more comfortable with and 2) Expression Design XAML output is 1 way only (like FW-XAML) and doesn’t handle bitmaps (which Fireworks does).

On the Blend side, our WPF programmers don’t like Blend for the most part because it creates bloated code. So our workflow has been that I comp it in Fireworks, export it in XAML, and they build it in Visual Studio. Due to performance on our client machines, we’re not pushing a lot of animation so the animation that we do use is easy enough to do w/o Blend.

But I completely agree w/ you though — MS will never make a significant impact on Flash until the tools are made for Mac.

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